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Jim:
Just put a postit with my name on it and drop it off at the office straight across the street from the museum. Give it to Blyth, she is the blond at the desk. Are you going to the DigIn Decorah events?
Yes I have read the article about Borlaug as well as other articles showing that the sytem he created is now breaking down in many areas. Rust has begun to show up in his wheat varieties and many farmers can no longer afford the fertilizer and chemical inputs required in that system. If you want, just e-mail or IM me at nesleksa@yahoo.com It would be quicker and easier.
Have a good day!
Bruce
Agreed, HR875 is in the committee, debate phase right now and a lot can change. The 2nd ammendment is also under fire by AG Eric Holder, so nothing appears to be sacred in this congress. I am meeting with congressman Tom Latham tuesday night and hope to get some more information.
Why Borlaug is an icon is beyond me. His so called green revolution was nothing more than introducing hybreds and fertilizer to regions that had not had them before. 40 years later, those same areas are entirely dependent on GM and hybred seeds and fertilizer to the point that income on a net basis is no better than before Borlaug came. The ones who made out on the deal were seed companies, fertilizer and chemical companies and farm equipment manufacturers. Pretty much like it is here only they do not have the taxpayer subsidies for farmers that we have.
Jim:
I have been opposed to rBGH for over a decade. My original opposition to it was because animals receiving it broke down at younger ages and had a much shorter life expectancy. The real science did not start coming out until about 5 years ago. As with any drug, hormone, GMO, etc., it gets approved on junk science and only much later get's disproved with real science. The only problem is that most bureaucrates are such greedy little morons that a few bucks and a slight of hand by Monsanto, DuPont, Dow and others gets initial approval and it takes years of quantitative research to disprove them. Now, bring that up in a room full of farmers and you will be lucky to get out with your life. Even those, other than me and a very small minority, with college undergrad and grad degrees have bought into industrial agriculture scam hook, line and sinker. They view any opposition to that way of life as a threat to their existance. Even one of my best friends views me as a quack on this issue and won't even consider that his way might even be a little wrong.
He and several other friends won't even consider trying an alternative even on a small portion of their farms for comparison. When I beat him on net profit per acre on any crop, his statement to me is always "well you probably couldn't do it on a larger acreage" to which I reply "I don't need as many acres to make the same amount of net income" and we both end up doing our own things year after year. Apparently, the only way to change that mentality is for the Industro/Agro system to collapse. So much for higher education in agriculture.
If you want to read some sites on finance, go to the Daily Reckoning and Prudent Bear as well as the Mortgage Lender Implode-o-meter(a lot of other good sites on this one)
Those numbers are very much valid and verifiable. Just like the fact that social security will start to have a negative cash flow sometime in 2010. What happened to the SS trust fund? Well, the actions of the congress have been to loan the SS trust fund balances of the past to the department of the treasury to buy bonds that finance the debt. So, the $14T of debt is financed with debt to the SS trust fund. Interest is paid on the treasuries issued by the treasury and interest is also accumulated on the debt to the SS trust fund. Problem is that when the treasuries come due, there is no money to pay them off, so the treasury issues new treasuries in an amount equal to the face amount plus accrued interest. Couple that with the fact that the baby boomers are now beginning to retire in huge numbers and monthly SS checks paid out will be greater than SS tax paid in sometime in 2010. A monumental Ponzi scheme(look up Charles Ponzi).
Add to all of that the $1.8T the Federal Reserve used to float the banks--this appears on no budget as it is supposedly a private corporation even though it is supported by congress--the apparently now $1T new stimulous bill, the $700B TARP bill previously approved by congress in September and the $345B stimulous package of 2008 and you can see how it adds up.
Now, consider that almost every state in the union has used similar practices to finance unsustainable budgets and it does add up rather quickly. Every citizen has a responsibility to know how their government is transacting business, where they are spending money and hold them personally accountable for their actions.
If you need garden space, I have plenty of room out at the farm. Let me know.
Been doing a lot of reading on biodynamic agriculture, Demeter certification and Rudolph Steiner. My first impression is that this may be the most viable solution to what we have been discussing. It doesn't trip everyones trigger, but then again, nothing does.
The most recent issue of Mother Earth News has an article on GE(GMO) seed and how congress has been ignoring a recent National Academy of Science study showing little if any long term gain from the use of GE(GMO) seed.
In my list of resources on debt, I left out the state treasurers.
The figure I gave you also did not include $56,000,000,000,000.00 in contingent liabilities such as foreign aid obligations, Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid, unfunded public employee pension funds, etc. That would bring the average family share of Gov't debt to approximately $1,416,000.00. At a 5% cost for interest and administration, the annual cost would be about $70,800.00 per family for interest alone and does not include any money for the annual budget. Well Stan this is another fine mess you have gotten us into!
There are a lot of things we can do to change our consumption habbits, specifically the fact that we can grow fruits, vegetables," yes meat", poultry and dairy products that will meet our daily nutritional needs, even within the city limits of Decorah. I have yet to find a substitute for coffee, but hope remains eternal.
I am pretty much open to most days, but this time of year it is dependent a lot on the weather. I have to find out for sure, but I will be up on either the 5th or the 9th for a meeting at Vesterheim in the morning. I'll get back to you on that. As for a topic, I think the first thing we need to do is find out what all groups are involved in local food production, marketing, etc. and perhaps see if we could possibly be a vehicle for them to all get together at the same time and unify their efforts. It seems to me that a lot of groups are doing many of the same things.
As for the age thing, you are the same age as my son, so I have vast experience with that age group.
A note on immigration, my grandmother immigrated from Norway when she was 15 and worked as a cook and housekeeper in Chicago for 10 years to pay for it. My grandfather also immigrated from Norway and worked as a merchant seaman for 15 years to pay his way over. Ironically, I could get full Norwegian citizenship if I wanted to move over there. My grandfather was 51 and my grandmother was 44 when my father was born, so unfortunately I never had the opportunity to know them. Probably why we have only had 4 generations in our family in 136 years.
We cannot undo or dwell on the mistakes of out fathers nor can we live off of their successes. Thoughts!
Our differences are not fundamentals, fundamentals are facts and laws of nature and science and on those we do not disagree. We also do not disagree on the basic cause and effect of illegal immigration. What we do disagree on is how to correct it and how to make sure that it is less likely to happen in the future. If I consume less at all levels and successfully encourage others to do their share, I feel that I have done my part. History has shown us that even the best of intentions manage to upset the apple cart whenever we interveen either on the military, or the social side. Therefore, our most effective way of addressing the situation is stay the hell out of their lives altogther and not live personally in a way that will require us to need their resources.
If we do not live as though we are entittled to live better, consume and destroy more than any other nation, we would not be having this discussion right now. A.J. really hit the nail on the head with this one.
Got any ideas as to when we can get groups together and meet?
Have a great weekend
One thing that I can say about central and south america is that 40 year civil wars, domination, slavery and other real or perceived abuses are a part of their history whether done by outsiders, or their own leaders, Aztec, Inca, etal. Such things have happened there since long before the CIA existed, or even the U.S. existed. Not that anything the CIA may or may not have done is justifiable, but it is not anything unusual or unprecidented. The point being that we can restore the area and the people to where they were before the CIA was there and within 10 years they will be right back in a similar mess.
As to whether or not people have the right (moral or legal) to break our laws regardless of their situation, my position is that no they do not have that right. If you want to change the laws and allow them in, have at it. Do, and you will have the same mess here. Look no further than Postville, which is not in Winneshiek county.
The point of most of what I have written is that first you have to build a solid base from which all else will be supported. You can't do 10 things simulataneously and be successful at all of them. What we need to do is first build the food production units that are specifically geared to Winneshiek county and the population that it has today. How many people are in the county, how many are employed, unemployed, in school, retired, etc.? How much and what type of foods would we need to produce within the county to meet their dietary needs? How many acres and how many individual units would it take to produce that food? How would we process, deliver and market that food within the county? How would we finance that system?
Secondly, how many housing units would we need? what would be the most efficient size, how would we most efficiently provide the energy needs for those housing units? Do we need McMansions or do we "need" function?
Do we have organized community garden spaces currently functioning?
What do we do with any surplus that we are able to produce?
Do we have in place educational programs for planting, growing and processing foods? Do we have sources for seed, fertilizer, feed and equipment that would meet the needs of producers? Has anyone sat down and put together an estimate of the volumes needed and attempted to match them with the sources?
Is there in place or planned a land use and zoning policy for the county that would preserve and protect?
Do we want a comprehensive plan, or do we just wish to allow it to evolve on it's own.
Where will jobs come from in the future? Let's say there are 300 students that graduate from HS in the county each year. Is there a plan in place that would provide jobs for a majority of them after HS or college or do we just shoot from the hip? Have we identified what jobs will actually be needed under the proposed system or are we just guessing?
I will quit rambling and please don't take what I say personally, I view it as a discussion of ideas and what results will be based on the thorough discussion of those ideas.
Just a point or two that I have to make on the situation in Postville. Postville started going in the dumper in the mid to late 60's and those problems got worse in the 70's and 80's. The community leaders were approached by the Robashkin ( I think that is how it is spelled) family about relocating their facilty (AgriProcessors) to Postville. After the required due dilligence that is required when grants are given to private for profit entities, prior infractions and fines levied on that entity by the department of labor had to have been known (I know they were) prior to any agreement being entered into, as were prior questionable financial involvements. In 2000, everyone in Postville with half a brain knew of the labor situation at AgriProcessors and they ignored it because of their own financial interest.
Many in Postville had no qualms about taking full advantage of the financial benefits they were receiving indirectly from those same violations. Now, those same city "Leaders" are asking everyone else to come to their rescue. BS
I have no problem with helping anyone who is here legally, under current law and who, through no fault of their own finds themselves in a bind. However, I do have a problem with someone who is here illegally, sucks off an already over taxed system and not only accepts our generosity, but also expects it.
Has anyone ever thought that if they were looking for a better life that they could do the exact same thing at home as what we are doing with the sustainable future network here?
Sorry for the tirade, have a good week
After I saw the picture left by Jase Grimm and read the comments about recycling food with worms, I
thought of this picture I had from quite awhile ago. They are polyporous sulphureus mushrooms. They
are also known as sulphur shelf mushrooms. Quite common around here if you know what to look for and
very edible. They grow on decaying wood and can be found on the ground, on logs, or up in trees where
lightening has struck which is where these were.
It was a pleasure meeting you and having the opportunity to talk with you on the 20th. Have you had the chance to read any of the Seeds of Deception book yet. A.J. and I have been having quite a discussion, feel free to jump in anytime. Have a great day!
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Just put a postit with my name on it and drop it off at the office straight across the street from the museum. Give it to Blyth, she is the blond at the desk. Are you going to the DigIn Decorah events?
Yes I have read the article about Borlaug as well as other articles showing that the sytem he created is now breaking down in many areas. Rust has begun to show up in his wheat varieties and many farmers can no longer afford the fertilizer and chemical inputs required in that system. If you want, just e-mail or IM me at nesleksa@yahoo.com It would be quicker and easier.
Have a good day!
Bruce
Just curious as to when I can get my book back. Several other people would like to peruse it.
Have a good day!
Bruce
Have you got spring fever yet?
Just checking to see if you have gotten finished with the book yet. I am interested in your thoughts on it.
Bruce
I have been opposed to rBGH for over a decade. My original opposition to it was because animals receiving it broke down at younger ages and had a much shorter life expectancy. The real science did not start coming out until about 5 years ago. As with any drug, hormone, GMO, etc., it gets approved on junk science and only much later get's disproved with real science. The only problem is that most bureaucrates are such greedy little morons that a few bucks and a slight of hand by Monsanto, DuPont, Dow and others gets initial approval and it takes years of quantitative research to disprove them. Now, bring that up in a room full of farmers and you will be lucky to get out with your life. Even those, other than me and a very small minority, with college undergrad and grad degrees have bought into industrial agriculture scam hook, line and sinker. They view any opposition to that way of life as a threat to their existance. Even one of my best friends views me as a quack on this issue and won't even consider that his way might even be a little wrong.
He and several other friends won't even consider trying an alternative even on a small portion of their farms for comparison. When I beat him on net profit per acre on any crop, his statement to me is always "well you probably couldn't do it on a larger acreage" to which I reply "I don't need as many acres to make the same amount of net income" and we both end up doing our own things year after year. Apparently, the only way to change that mentality is for the Industro/Agro system to collapse. So much for higher education in agriculture.
How are you comming on the book?
I will be back up next Thurs. and Fri.. Let me know if anything works out.
Add to all of that the $1.8T the Federal Reserve used to float the banks--this appears on no budget as it is supposedly a private corporation even though it is supported by congress--the apparently now $1T new stimulous bill, the $700B TARP bill previously approved by congress in September and the $345B stimulous package of 2008 and you can see how it adds up.
Now, consider that almost every state in the union has used similar practices to finance unsustainable budgets and it does add up rather quickly. Every citizen has a responsibility to know how their government is transacting business, where they are spending money and hold them personally accountable for their actions.
If you need garden space, I have plenty of room out at the farm. Let me know.
The most recent issue of Mother Earth News has an article on GE(GMO) seed and how congress has been ignoring a recent National Academy of Science study showing little if any long term gain from the use of GE(GMO) seed.
In my list of resources on debt, I left out the state treasurers.
The figure I gave you also did not include $56,000,000,000,000.00 in contingent liabilities such as foreign aid obligations, Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid, unfunded public employee pension funds, etc. That would bring the average family share of Gov't debt to approximately $1,416,000.00. At a 5% cost for interest and administration, the annual cost would be about $70,800.00 per family for interest alone and does not include any money for the annual budget. Well Stan this is another fine mess you have gotten us into!
I am pretty much open to most days, but this time of year it is dependent a lot on the weather. I have to find out for sure, but I will be up on either the 5th or the 9th for a meeting at Vesterheim in the morning. I'll get back to you on that. As for a topic, I think the first thing we need to do is find out what all groups are involved in local food production, marketing, etc. and perhaps see if we could possibly be a vehicle for them to all get together at the same time and unify their efforts. It seems to me that a lot of groups are doing many of the same things.
As for the age thing, you are the same age as my son, so I have vast experience with that age group.
A note on immigration, my grandmother immigrated from Norway when she was 15 and worked as a cook and housekeeper in Chicago for 10 years to pay for it. My grandfather also immigrated from Norway and worked as a merchant seaman for 15 years to pay his way over. Ironically, I could get full Norwegian citizenship if I wanted to move over there. My grandfather was 51 and my grandmother was 44 when my father was born, so unfortunately I never had the opportunity to know them. Probably why we have only had 4 generations in our family in 136 years.
Our differences are not fundamentals, fundamentals are facts and laws of nature and science and on those we do not disagree. We also do not disagree on the basic cause and effect of illegal immigration. What we do disagree on is how to correct it and how to make sure that it is less likely to happen in the future. If I consume less at all levels and successfully encourage others to do their share, I feel that I have done my part. History has shown us that even the best of intentions manage to upset the apple cart whenever we interveen either on the military, or the social side. Therefore, our most effective way of addressing the situation is stay the hell out of their lives altogther and not live personally in a way that will require us to need their resources.
If we do not live as though we are entittled to live better, consume and destroy more than any other nation, we would not be having this discussion right now. A.J. really hit the nail on the head with this one.
Got any ideas as to when we can get groups together and meet?
Have a great weekend
As to whether or not people have the right (moral or legal) to break our laws regardless of their situation, my position is that no they do not have that right. If you want to change the laws and allow them in, have at it. Do, and you will have the same mess here. Look no further than Postville, which is not in Winneshiek county.
The point of most of what I have written is that first you have to build a solid base from which all else will be supported. You can't do 10 things simulataneously and be successful at all of them. What we need to do is first build the food production units that are specifically geared to Winneshiek county and the population that it has today. How many people are in the county, how many are employed, unemployed, in school, retired, etc.? How much and what type of foods would we need to produce within the county to meet their dietary needs? How many acres and how many individual units would it take to produce that food? How would we process, deliver and market that food within the county? How would we finance that system?
Secondly, how many housing units would we need? what would be the most efficient size, how would we most efficiently provide the energy needs for those housing units? Do we need McMansions or do we "need" function?
Do we have organized community garden spaces currently functioning?
What do we do with any surplus that we are able to produce?
Do we have in place educational programs for planting, growing and processing foods? Do we have sources for seed, fertilizer, feed and equipment that would meet the needs of producers? Has anyone sat down and put together an estimate of the volumes needed and attempted to match them with the sources?
Is there in place or planned a land use and zoning policy for the county that would preserve and protect?
Do we want a comprehensive plan, or do we just wish to allow it to evolve on it's own.
Where will jobs come from in the future? Let's say there are 300 students that graduate from HS in the county each year. Is there a plan in place that would provide jobs for a majority of them after HS or college or do we just shoot from the hip? Have we identified what jobs will actually be needed under the proposed system or are we just guessing?
I will quit rambling and please don't take what I say personally, I view it as a discussion of ideas and what results will be based on the thorough discussion of those ideas.
Many in Postville had no qualms about taking full advantage of the financial benefits they were receiving indirectly from those same violations. Now, those same city "Leaders" are asking everyone else to come to their rescue. BS
I have no problem with helping anyone who is here legally, under current law and who, through no fault of their own finds themselves in a bind. However, I do have a problem with someone who is here illegally, sucks off an already over taxed system and not only accepts our generosity, but also expects it.
Has anyone ever thought that if they were looking for a better life that they could do the exact same thing at home as what we are doing with the sustainable future network here?
Sorry for the tirade, have a good week
thought of this picture I had from quite awhile ago. They are polyporous sulphureus mushrooms. They
are also known as sulphur shelf mushrooms. Quite common around here if you know what to look for and
very edible. They grow on decaying wood and can be found on the ground, on logs, or up in trees where
lightening has struck which is where these were.
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